'Keep Moving Forward' with Faye Penn

Ep 2:  Dori was struck by a piece of advice she heard on a podcast about career pivoting, given by Faye Penn, Executive Director of women.nyc and Executive Vice President of Initiatives at the New York City Economic Development Corporation. She invited Penn on to discuss the deeper meaning behind three deceptively-simple words.

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The summer of 2021 was pretty glorious for me, all things considered, in spite of pandemic limitations and my admittedly modest wishlist of things I would do. I did them all. Weeks in the Catskills with friends along weekend with my former boss in Shelter Island. I exercised, I danced at the South Street Seaport in the rain.

And following his own COVID gap year, I drove my son to start his junior year at Kenyon College in Ohio. That drive was not on my wishlist and it is not something I'd like to repeat, but it was a beautiful thing to spend this time with him. We had grown closer during the pandemic and he had grown up a lot.

I would really miss having him around. By late September, the gauzy haze of being free of work was moving into a sense of anxiety about what I would do next. Then one day I tuned into an episode of the 3, 2, 1 Relaunch podcast where my longtime friend and colleague Faye Penn was being interviewed about career pivoting.

 She said something that has become a sort of mantra for me to this day. 'Keep moving forward' were the words she said that captured my attention. Simple, even simplistic or cliche sounding. I know, but something happens when you have the time and you make the space, words get internalized differently.

Or as my therapist suggested, they are received in a deeper, more personal way. 

I wanted to know if there was something more than meets the ears about 'keep moving forward' for Faye too. So I invited her to talk with me about it. Apologies in advance for the background noise and phase audio. Sorry. These are the hazards of first time podcasting, but I think it will be worth your time.

It's not a long interview, but it's a good one. 

Welcome to Life-Changing with Dori Fern, a podcast about the messy middle between when you hit pause and what comes next. I'm Dori Fern, a single empty nester in Brooklyn, New York who quit a corporate job at 55 on a quest to live a more purposeful, exceptional. I don't know, happier life? I'm figuring it out as I go along.

But as my high school drama teacher used to say. The trip is the trip. I hope you'll join me.

Faye Penn is a former media executive who held top editorial positions at publications like In Style, New York Magazine, The New York Post and more. She's now working in the public sector as Executive Director of women.nyc and Executive Vice President of Initiatives at the New York City Economic Development Corporation.

Here's our conversation. 

Dori Fern: Hello? 

Faye Penn: Hello. 

DF: Did you see the text from me earlier? 

FP: I did not 

DF: Because I think this is very crazy since we don't talk to each other super regularly, but 10 years ago today, I just got a Facebook notification that you tagged me about what to do with chicory. You had two pounds of chicory. And you didn't pay, you didn't listen to what anyone said. You did your own thing and it turned out very well. 

You may think it's really crazy that I'm here to talk to you about this one thing that you said, but it really meant a lot to me. So you were on the 3, 2, 1 podcast and you said not once, but twice that your number one piece of advice was to keep moving forward.

And I want to know why that was such important advice for you to convey. 

FP: Thanks for the question, Dori. I'm glad that that resonated with you because it also resonates with me. I think very simply when you're faced with a change in your life or career and things look uncertain and you're not sure what's next, you think back to the last thing that worked and that was comfortable for you. It was safe for you. It made sense for you. You were good at it and everything was fine. But challenge of that approach is that number one, safety and comfort doesn't bring growth in. There are a lot of other people back there where you were what's different about you is where you've been since and how you've grown since.

And the development that you have had in your own career and your own toolkit and your own skills and talents and a better strategy, I think. And I just want to make allowances that there are people who have a lot going on in their lives and a career is just one. And that sometimes it makes you want to do the safe and comfortable thing, right.

There could be a lot happening in your family. You could be a caregiver. You may just need to have some income coming in and that's a perfectly valuable strategy at certain points of your life. But if you're looking to grow and you're looking to, if that matters to you, then look at how your skills and your experience lines up with what's coming next in the world in your life. 

DF: How do you leverage what you've already done to get to the next thing? 

What's the hardest part about it? I mean, besides just that things are pulling you back, like, can you give an example from your own life? 

FP: The best example in my own life is my turn from media to public service, which is that a few years ago, an opportunity opened up that I was surprised by how well it aligned with my background.

It was with the New York City Economic Development Corporation, and I came from a media background, and it was in  a time of transition and I hadn't really considered public service, but then along came this opportunity and all of the things that I had done lined up with this role, which was the Executive Director of women.nyc.

Now what I hadn't done is I hadn't navigated government  I hadn't done quite the level of public relations and public affairs work that I had to do. And this was really the first role where I was, it's funny. I say I became an influencer in my fifties. And the other really important thing to me was that I feel like you can have a long career in public service, depending on what you do.

Media was not only a declining industry, but it's also a very young industry and, especially the digital media space, which is where all the action is is, is exceptionally. And so I felt like I could bring my experience. Government really needs people with communication skills, not just in the press office, but also to run programs, to understand how to translate complex ideas and programs into concepts that everybody can understand.

That's a really valuable skill of public service. And so in addition to really leveraging my communication skills in the public service space, I also felt like that was able to sort of reset my career and give it more longevity. 

DF: What was the scariest part of moving into this unknown territory? 

FP: Great question.

I don't think it was scary. One of the virtues of being this far along in your career is that you've done things and you developed judgment and you dealt with a lot of different situations and you learn to understand people. And so anything that comes in front of you, you could figure out.

DF: Yeah. That really resonates with me because I don't think I really internalized that so much until this period of time and needed to step away to really believe that.

I think that's part of why this idea really resonates with me. You know, like I literally say to myself when I feel myself kind of spinning, okay, what can I do to move myself forward on this day? I also think that it's a really important thing for life that a lot of us don't think about, you know, what does it look like to not spin in place and do things the same way and to move yourself forward.

FP: When you say you try to move the needle every day, you try to move forward every day. What does that look like? What are your strategies for moving forward? Step-by-step.

DF: I'm so glad you asked me that question. Well, I'll tell you the first time I noticed I. It has nothing to do with career. I had just come out of this, the gauzy haze of I left my job and I, my time was full and I felt really proud of myself.

And it was the first time that I felt like, all right, it's a hot day in Brooklyn and I don't have anything to do. And I don't have anyone to do it with I'm feeling bad. And I just stopped. I was literally crossing Flatbush avenue and said to myself, What would moving forward, look like to me right now?

And I went to the beach. The thing to take away from that is not what I did. It it's so mundane, but it was that I had the power to turn around something that was putting me back in that spin state and that negative state of, I don't know what I'm doing, or I don't have power in my life. And it gave me agency and it showed me that there's always a choice to make, to do something like that.

And it's knowing that it's the small things, as well as the big things. And it really is a way of thinking about yourself in the world. So long, long answer. 

FP: I think that you have to give yourself a little bit of a break in these periods of transition. You might do a lot of things that don't take you places and you might do some things that unexpectedly take you places.

And that you have to give yourself a little latitude to explore. I think having a direction and a plan and a goal is ultimately and eventually is really important in these times, but also being open to what the universe presents is something that is possible in times of transition. 

DF: What is it that you think people need to think about when it comes to moving forward in their life?

FP: There are a lot of limiting beliefs that can get to you. We just had an event on this the other night, how to examine limiting beliefs, how to reject them, how not to let your own interpretation of events, stymie your growth and your development and tactically. I also think that it's worthwhile to keep your eye on.

Industries on things that are happening in the world on externalities that create opportunity can create opportunity. There could be changes in well COVID, COVID created opportunity for certain types of businesses. It's it's seeing what opportunities are being created and maybe marrying your goals and your dreams to areas that have momentum is a great way to maximize your opportunity.

And that could be areas. I mean, sectors, technologies, fields, social, and cultural shifts. How does what you really care about and what you want to do and what you're good at? Connect with what's happening in the world. Where's the greatest need for your particular gifts? 

DF: Where do you say to people who might be more senior in their life and career, people over 50, who worry about ageism in all of that? 

FP: I'd say it's absolutely real. And the trick is to design a life that leverages your gifts, including the perspective, the networks, the emotional intelligence and the experience that comes with age. And that it's not something to hide from. It's not something to be ashamed of.

You have so much more experience and you have so many more skills than you did 20 years ago. Find a way to maximize them, find a way to express them and capitalize them in ways that not only are wanted in the world, but also that give you joy.

DF: And find a way to believe that you can do that. Moving forward in life is really not buying into what other people tell you moving forward looks like.

FP: Absolutely. I think that we, um, You know, my hope is that Generation X does for aging what millennials have done for body positivity. It doesn't need to be shameful. It doesn't need to be something you hide from or conceal or mask. I think it is for a lot of people and a lot of people see it as a deficit. And that's unfortunate.

DF: And it's a choice and it's a choice. 

FP: It is, look, I'm very sympathetic about this because it's real ageism is absolutely real, but what can you do other than do your absolute best and advocate for yourself and, and be your best and find ways to leverage everything that you know, in everything that you've achieved and everyone that you know, to maximize your contributions.

DF: Thank you for joining me for this episode of Life-Changing with Dori Fern. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And please come join me next week.