Get Coached with Carmen Hughes

Ep 6: Seeking the necessary help is an essential ingredient to life changing, but knowing where to find it -- and who to ask -- isn't always clear.  In this episode, Dori talks to Carmen Hughes, career coach and diversity, equity, and inclusion consultant about how to find an accredited coach, self-help tips for those who can't afford or aren't ready to commit to hiring one, and about the pivotal role Carmen played in Dori's own readiness to leave her job.

Learn more about Carmen Hughes and her company, Edelweise Consulting, at edelweiseconsulting.com. 

Search for a credentialed coach in your area at https://coachingfederation.org/find-a-coach

For more thoughts and recommendations about coaching, follow and connect with Dori on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/dorifern/ or on IG at https://www.instagram.com/lifechangingwithdorifern/

Connect with me!
Instagram: @dorifern
LinkedIn: Dori Fern
Email me: lifechangingwithdorifern@gmail.com

Visit https://dorifern.com for more about Dori's coaching services and to sign up for a complimentary session.

Transcript

Hello hello good people. I’m back from nearly a month traveling, to London, Northern Ireland, and Spain. Aside from that first day in Brighton I told you about in the last episode and the fact that, no, as my friend Jyll asked me --  I didn’t “get any” – but it was otherwise a pretty flawless trip. I wasn’t especially looking forward to coming home, but it’s actually been good. My head—and my wallet—are focused on how I’m going to make money, for now anyway. Got a couple of interesting prospects that I will or won’t share with you, depending on how things go, but I’m feeling pretty good about things  

INTRO:

 Welcome to Life-Changing with Dori Fern, a podcast about the messy middle between when you hit pause and what comes next. I'm Dori Fern, a single empty nester in Brooklyn, New York who quit a corporate job at 55 on a quest to live a more purposeful, exceptional. I don't know, happier life? I'm figuring it out as I go along.
 
 But as my high school drama teacher used to say. The trip is the trip. I hope you'll join me.

Today’s episode is as close to service journalism as I’m likely to get on this podcast, so listen up and take notes! I’m sharing a conversation I had with Carmen Hughes, certified career coach, diversity consultant, and CEO of Edelweise Consulting. Carmen and I worked together mid-2020 and I thought it would be helpful to hear more about how we found each other and our work together. I’ve talked to many people who like the idea of getting professional career coaching but are either overwhelmed by how to find the right person, or hesitate to spend the money on coaches who may not actually know what they’re talking about.

It has not been a direct path for me between finding a coach, doing the work and seeing the results unfold. The process itself, though, has been highly instructive. I think it’s important to keep that in mind. The most valuable lessons I’ve learned is, #1, find a coach who you like and connect with, then show up and do the work, enjoy the surprises that come, and—hello—keep moving forward. You do that and the pieces will come together over time. It tickles me that even though I’m still in professional exploration mode, that the very same things I cared about doing in early 2020 when I first met Carmen are much the same now: the cooking and the creative stuff, as you know, but I also want to help change lives that are not my own, too, especially when it comes to race. More on that in future episodes.

For now, enjoy my conversation with the delightful Carmen Hughes:

Dori Fern: [00:00:00] Hi, Carmen Hughes.

Carmen Hughes: Hi, Dori. How are you?

Dori Fern: I'm good. It's so nice to see you 

Carmen Hughes: likewise.

Dori Fern: So thank you for joining me today. I'm really excited to talk to you. I just wanted to start by telling people, listening, how we met each other, because. in some ways it's relevant to why I actually wanted to talk to you today. It was January of 2020, and you were on a panel for diversity and inclusion. And you are talking about a coaching program that you had done through. Well, the Cornell program is a DEI focused coaching program. Correct? Is that 

Carmen Hughes: Did the. Cornell program is strictly on diversity, equity and inclusion, and it's for diversity professionals who wanted to, um, get certified in the profession.

Dori Fern: And [00:01:00] then you were, you had also done a program called icoach. 

Carmen Hughes: Yes. So it was actually iPEC. It was the coaching program that I went through IPEC. Yes. 

Dori Fern: And what is  iPEC? 

Carmen Hughes:  iPEC is the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching, and it's part of the International Coaching Federation..

Dori Fern: Great. So anyway, we met in that panel and I reached out to you afterwards. So we talked, and then of course COVID happened and in, it was, my birthday was actually the day after my birthday.

Dori Fern: I get a LinkedIn happy birthday. Wish you saying. Did you do anything? Did you ever follow up on the program? And June 5th was the week after George Floyd was killed. I had just spent the day before at a protest and, and thinking about [00:02:00] this, you know, even for coaching, racial equity, it was something I was interested in at the time before all this happened. And of course that sparked new interest in me to continue thinking about it. So, and also you had reached out right after my birthday and it just felt like good timing. So on that same day, we got on another call and somehow the end of the conversation was okay, I'm gonna hire you to be my coach. That was not how I thought the conversation was gonna go, but that's how it went. And we worked together for three months and I didn't decide to leave my job for about six months, uh, after that.

Carmen Hughes: no,

Dori Fern: Talk about your approach because it was really helpful to me at that time.

Dori Fern: And I, I, I just, I couldn't have even anticipated how helpful it would. 

Carmen Hughes: I remember the time as well. And [00:03:00] us having that discussion on my approach to coaching. And if I remember from our coaching, you've been very involved from a racial equity, diversity perspective, I think for most of your life.

Carmen Hughes: So this is not something that was just new to you. You were, um, from, if I remember, you know, very involved for a while, um,

Dori Fern: Well thinking about it. And, and it being part of my day to day consideration set, you know, I'm not a formal, I haven't, and that was part of it. If I wanna formalize this, what would that look like? 

Carmen Hughes: right. Absolutely. Absolutely. But when I think about my, my coaching practice and when I think about my approach with people, it really is about getting people connected to their dream, to start thinking about what they really want and being able to articulate that in a forward looking lens with commitment and accountability. We say, well, I kind of wanna do this, but, but. You know, and all the butts are why we're never really actually fulfilling our [00:04:00] dreams. So I'm really deep into state exactly what you want and then let's figure out how we can make it happen and why it's important to you.

Dori Fern: I think for me, a lot of it was working on my creative life and how to bring that more to the fore. One of the, the biggest benefits for me in working with you, however, is, the way we look at how I showed up at work. So there are a lot of articles that have happened since the great resignation, such as it is about how you have to be careful about how you leave your job, because you don't wanna just run away from something. And so much of our work together was getting me to look at how I was showing up for work for, you know, in working with other [00:05:00] people. And it was so invaluable to me to learn that. I mean, we have , there are texts I have where you're like, yeah, This person who you work with, who will remain nameless here is, you know, sure. They're a jerk, but so what, how are you going to navigate this situation so that it doesn't create stress?

Dori Fern: And I so long, it was about running away from the thing I was doing to something new. Without really exploring and examining, like why, what was it that was so aggravating to me? What, why was I internalizing so much of this? And I've written about this since I left my job about your, your Q-tip thing, do you wanna, like, I it's still wait.

Dori Fern: Oh my God. Where is it? [00:06:00] Oh, wait, where is it? I think, I think it, I think it's moved, but I've had a Q-tip right by my laptop telling me quit taking it personal. And, and Yes.

Dori Fern: How did that even become a thing for You? 

Carmen Hughes: You know, someone had shared it with me and it stuck because that is something that I do. I take things personal. It was one of my IPEC coaches. Um, and so he was like, Carmen, quit taking it personal. And I said, that is right on point.

Carmen Hughes: Because we can't change other people, but we can change ourselves. And I think that's what I was trying to show you, you weren't ready to leave at that point in time, you were frustrated with, you know, some of the things that were happening within the organization.

Carmen Hughes: And it was like, okay, what is in your control? What is in your control is how you respond and react to what's going on with this person. And a lot of times when people. Um, don't like their [00:07:00] manager or don't like their colleague or don't like someone who's in their environment. Then they start being passive aggressive and they start doing other things and they start stressing themselves out and it doesn't change the situation.

Carmen Hughes: It just amplifies it. 

Dori Fern: Yeah. And, and exactly. And it's just reminding you of the humanity in every situation and also that when you work with people, especially people who are in charge people or operations it's how can you help them? I, I have a mentee and we talk a lot about how she can help, you know, that that's sort of the best thing.

Dori Fern: Nobody tells you that when you go to jobs, that your job really is to help your boss be successful in large measure. That is a really big part of most people's jobs. And.

Carmen Hughes: how do they make your bosses job easier?

Dori Fern: how do you make your boss's job easier? [00:08:00] And so figuring that out, even when you don't, especially like the person that you're working for.

Dori Fern: I mean, it's challenging, but it was so instructive for me and if I am at an institution, if I am going back to full time, it's helped me so much to think about that. And to, to remember that. 

Carmen Hughes: mm-hmm

Dori Fern: You know, there's so much more in your power to make better day to day than we are ever really, uh, thinking about.

Dori Fern: So thank you for that. The reason I wanted to tell that story of how we met is because of the serendipity of it. What's your advice for people who are thinking about getting a coach and, and how to find one? 

Carmen Hughes: Yeah, well, a couple things come to mind. Um, first coaching is like dating. It's a relationship, right? It's not gonna be [00:09:00] this magic hour. Coach is gonna be at us, tell you what you need and it's over, which is why coaches sell their services and packages.

Carmen Hughes: And as we begin to know one another. And we hope you kind of get to know yourself too. That's where the magic starts happening. That's where the evolution can happen. And that can take time. 

Carmen Hughes: Most coaches will offer at least a half an hour free consultation, you know, so that'll be at least a test for you to ask those questions to say, this is what I'm working on.

Carmen Hughes: How will you get me there? What will your process be? Like, what can I expect when I work with you? You know? And I also think it's important for you to be honest with yourself in terms of. How do you best receive feedback and how do you best, you know, want to look deeper in yourself? You know, you were so great to work with because you allowed me, you gave me the permission to say, can I call you on your stuff?

Carmen Hughes: Can I say, this is what I see when you do certain things and you said yes, and other people. They're not [00:10:00] comfortable, so it takes longer. And to do that, but it's not the job of the coach, you know, to tell you what you want. I believe you know exactly what you want the job and the role of the coach is to ask you empowering questions, to get you, to look at yourself and, and then answer and navigate what's best for you.

Carmen Hughes: Mm.

Dori Fern: Right.

Dori Fern: In terms of actually finding people though, like I found you, because like I said, I saw you on a panel and I didn't even know until. I mean, we talked about what you did. I heard the words, but I wasn't expecting what I got out of it, so, well, that's part of it. And I guess that is just part of the journey and, and the openness part.

Dori Fern: If somebody is looking for a coach, but doesn't know where to go, what would you say to them? 

Carmen Hughes: well, I think one place that you can go is the international coaching Federation. They have all a directory of all of their coaches and every state has a chapter [00:11:00] and you can easily go into, onto the website, for whatever state you live in and look for coaches, and there'll be all types of coaches, career, coach, resume, coach transition, coach stress and anxiety coach, you know, so whatever you're dealing with, they have it in different buckets and you can read people's bios and, and find a coach that way.

Carmen Hughes: And what's great , you don't need to find, use a coach in your state. I've coached people all around the world, Hong Kong, Switzerland.

Carmen Hughes: So that does give you some flexibility, but I would go to the international coaching Federation, because then at least, you know, you're getting someone who's certified and trained, 

Carmen Hughes: Since I live in Connecticut, my home chapter is www.icf-ct.org.

Dori Fern: That's really great advice. Thank you. Um, in terms of the cost, you know, that's another thing, and I kind of think it's the same for therapy too.

Dori Fern: People talk themselves out of, I mean, some people don't have the [00:12:00] funds to do something like that. let's start there. 

Carmen Hughes: Here's some easy tricks for yourself and some tools for yourself. Um, really it's just write down exactly what you want. What are you looking for? And if you don't know, then write a list of all the things you don't want so at least you can start crossing those off the list. I think as we're trying to work with someone who's, who's looking for a transition, you know, it's, what do I really want? What makes me happy? Um, and if I think about my transition of how I got into coaching, I spent 20 years on wall street.

Carmen Hughes: I was on the trading floor. So you can imagine being a woman on the trading floor, a woman of color on the trading floor. There weren't a lot of us, so I was constantly being tapped to mentor. Um, and I used mentor specifically, cause I didn't know how to be a coach and I wasn't coaching

Carmen Hughes: then I was purely just mentoring people off of my pure own experience. Um, you know, how they can navigate the worlds of the investment bank in the sales and [00:13:00] trading. And then I got involved in a number of diversity initiatives. So that's kind of how I got my introduction to, oh, I actually enjoy mentoring people.

Carmen Hughes: Maybe I should actually learn how to do this real. And that's when I went to IPEC to get, um, trained on how to be a. . Um, and then I started doing diversity consulting and training, and that's what led me to Cornell university to fully get trained so I can truly understand exactly how do I put a strategy in place.

Carmen Hughes: And what does it mean to put a strategy in place and, and how do I make sure it's successful and be inclusive? So, um, but it did start with what makes me happy. So I left wall street after 20 years because I was able to retire. And, um, it was my husband who said you come home happiest. when you're, you know, mentoring somebody or when you're doing something for diversity.

Carmen Hughes: So listening to people around you who listen to you talk all the time will also help. And one of the things I, I think, I, I don't know if you remember that we did the, um, energy leadership, uh, assessment when 

Dori Fern: Yes. Please talk about 

Carmen Hughes: so.[00:14:00] 

Carmen Hughes: We show up when someone is really happy, like their whole body shifts, their energy comes up, you know? And then you can really start seeing like, okay, I saw an, you know, your, your energy level change. Like tell me something that's going on for that. And people who are close to you will be able to tell, you know, they may not have the, uh, the professional language behind it, but they can tell when you're happy or when you're sad or when you're upset.

Carmen Hughes: And so for me, that was my husband, but I use it professionally in terms of looking at people's energy when I'm talking to them to. Okay. I know you said the words you said did not match the energy that just came off. So let's go and let's talk more about that. And so by doing the Oli, which is the energy leadership, um, index I'm able to see, are you someone who usually come for a place of feeling like they're the victim or, um, are you very angry?

Carmen Hughes: Those are levels one and two in the. And that's filled with a lot of stress [00:15:00] and, um, a lot of cortisol what creates all that, um, adrenaline, which can be used for good and bad. But, um, so there there's pauses and negatives with both wanna say one is negative, but you know, someone's coming from that place. And you know, that going into coaching with them versus as someone, the pleaser, you know, or someone all about, you know, looking at the opportunities that exist.

Carmen Hughes: And they're, they're constantly looking at the opportunities or the people who are just like, you know, There's no win or lose. We all win win. So I'm able to kind of take you through the, the index and kind of see what is your flavor? What brings you happiness? How do you kind of embrace it through an energy lens?

Dori Fern: Right. And so going back to the, to the question about folks who maybe are not ready to commit or are don't have the funds to do it, I think that's great advice to write those things down. And then just as a follow [00:16:00] up to that, if you were to look at that list and do something on your own with it, what does that look like? Obviously It's gonna depend what's on the list, but in broad strokes, 

Carmen Hughes: in broad strokes. So if you're really, if you wanna do something, then get an action. Right. And so I'm glad you brought us back to that only gave you one piece of it, write it down, and then if that's what you wanna do, then if you're really good at holding yourself accountable, then start writing down.

Carmen Hughes: What are the goals and what are the steps you're actually gonna. To move towards that goal. And if you're not good, if you're one that keeps starting over, then who do you trust? That's in your circle, who you won't get mad at when they hold you accountable for actually doing what you said you wanted to do, you know?

Carmen Hughes: So I'm working with a client who says she wants to leave her job. I said, listen, I'm suggesting you don't leave yet because you don't have a plan. So let's develop your plan. And I said, and, um, let's make [00:17:00] sure that you're ready and prepared because now that you put it out there, you're leaving your job right.

Carmen Hughes: Within six months of us working together. they just mentored her group. So she did lose her job and that's actually the way she wanted to lose her job was to get the severance package, you know, and we decided that she wanted to go to school. So we already had her in her GMAT classes taking her GMAT, you know, we got, so she was prepared when all that was happening.

Carmen Hughes: So once you put it out there, the ball is gonna get in motion to what you just said you wanted. So there's your accountability for why you wanna start preparing yourself because you just committed to it.

Dori Fern: Yeah. What I love about your advice is even if you didn't have someone guiding you professionally, whether it's yourself writing an accountability list or a friend who is your accountability person, that you are chipping away at the things that you wanna do and not just quitting and [00:18:00] also that there are many different ways to get to that end goal. Whether it's, if you're not ready to take the new job or even go to school or whatever, I love that you're suggesting, well, maybe do something that is in your control to do. Maybe you have no idea. I have no idea why people are like, why are you doing this podcast?

Dori Fern: I'm like, well, I don't know, I'm in the middle of this thing. And I like talking to people and I creative and it's my story. So I just said, I'm just gonna do it.

Dori Fern: And it's, so that is not something that pre Life-Changing Dori would have done because I would've talked myself out of It And I do think, you know, manifestation such as it is, is really about putting one foot in front of the other and both identifying things that mean something to you. Like you [00:19:00] talked about, what do you love? What do you not love? Like all those things, but then it's, you know, how do you take the steps? It's not magical realism.

Dori Fern: Like how do you take the steps to make them come to life? And all those steps don't have to be, get the job, go to school. It's a long road, life. It is.

Carmen Hughes: It is a long road. And you know, first of all, I don't know why you're doing this podcast, but I think it's so perfect. Cause you have the most perfect voice for it. And I mean, if you ever wanted to get on camera, you have the perfect look for it as well. Like I just love talking to you so captivating. You have like such an award-winning personality.

Carmen Hughes: Um, so I

Dori Fern: my goodness. Thank you 

Carmen Hughes: you know, you don't know what this is gonna lead you to why the, you know, the universe leads you to this podcast. We don't know yet, you know, but you're going to make some, you're going to have a profound impact on many people's lives. I'm [00:20:00] sure. Or someone's gonna hear your podcast and say, I need her to do this work for me.

Carmen Hughes: And it's gonna be your dream job that you always wanted, or this will turn into. Something phenomenal. Right. But it's putting you in motion to what you wanna do and that is really like your, that that's where your, your happiness, that's where your energy flows is when you're creating.

Carmen Hughes: And I also I love the way you put it. It's about staying in action. It's about putting one foot in front of the other. And what I would say is that if you can't afford a coach, I want you to write down exactly what you want and then share it with somebody and say, okay, like make it and make sure it's smart.

Carmen Hughes: Like your goals. Okay. This is what was that clear enough? You know, 

Dori Fern: Right. What are the metrics? 

Carmen Hughes: what are the metrics? Exactly. So that way you don't need a roadmap, but just like when you get into the car, you have to know where you're going, or you're just gonna. You know, and if you don't know where you're going, then you may miss it.

Carmen Hughes: so that's why it is so important to be as clear as [00:21:00] possible and writing it down. 

Dori Fern: The one, the one last thing I, I wanted to ask you, Carmen, is what do you, what should someone like me who doesn't have a single passion or nascent unfulfilled dream think about, moving forward with a successful change mindset with focus and discipline and without getting overwhelmed? 

Carmen Hughes: Things, everything we just said one step at a time, one piece at a time, you know, we can't boil the ocean. So start testing it out. Um, when I left my job, I was in my early forties and I said to my husband, oh my gosh, I can't believe I just left my job. And I don't know what I wanna do next. I just, you know, I [00:22:00] thought I wanted to do marketing first before I really kind of narrowed in on the, the coaching and diversity, but I was stressing and he gave me the best advice.

Carmen Hughes: He said, just stop and play some golf with me. . But at the end of the day, really what it's about was just relax your brain and stop thinking about it and open your, just open your heart to what you're feeling. And so whether it's taking. Whether it's just reading books, doing something other than in like listening to your thoughts.

Carmen Hughes: Cuz I tell you 60% of what we tell ourselves is negative. Why isn't as high as 80%, you know? And if we can just start saying things, quiet the brain and do something, that's gonna force you to focus on something other than that, it allows new thoughts to come in there. And so often what we do is to just repeat the same thought over and over and over again.

Carmen Hughes: And that's where the overwhelm comes. 

Dori Fern: Well, it has made me very happy to talk to you, Carmen Hughes. And I [00:23:00] thank you so much for joining my podcast. 

Carmen Hughes: Thank you so much for having me. I truly enjoy this time that we spent together. I'm so happy to see that you're following your following your heart. 

Dori Fern: Ah, thank you. Now, can you, can you please tell everyone how they can find you if they are looking for your coaching services? 

Carmen Hughes: Oh, sure. Absolutely. So you can find me. Um, my website is Edelweiss. It's like the, uh, German winter flower. Um, but it's spelled slightly different. It's www.edelweiseconsulting.com. So that's Edelweiss consulting.com. 

Dori Fern: And I will put that in the show notes for everyone. So Thank you. Thank you Thank you. And have a great rest of your day.

Carmen Hughes: Thank you. Thank you so much. This was awesome. Have a great day. 

Dori Fern: You too. 

Carmen Hughes: Bye-bye.