Fatherhood, Combat Jack, and the Art of Storytelling with Ken Gibbs Jr

In this episode of Life Changing with Dori Fern, Dori talks with longtime friend, colleague, and fellow nerd, Ken Gibbs Jr., a digital media consultant with a distinguished career at companies like Spotify and BET Networks. They share stories that both align and diverge in striking ways, beginning with two very different family tales—told a decade and a world apart—connected by fireworks and fathers. They geek out over podcasting and hip hop, with Ken sharing intimate family memories and his experiences with suburban dad life. Dori and Ken also reflect on the impact the late Reggie Ossé, aka Combat Jack, had on their lives and careers. The conversation explores the importance of personal growth, his Art of Storytelling series, and the hope for more inclusive societies driven by cross-cultural communication. They also discuss the lasting influence of parental choices, personal evolution, and the idea of "winning" through life experiences.

00:00 Introduction to Season Two

00:39 Meet Ken Gibbs Jr.

01:52 Nerds Unite

02:44 Welcome to Life Changing with Dori Fern

04:35 Ken's Earliest Family Memories

17:35 The Impact of Reggie Ossé, aka Combat Jack

25:34 Reflections on Fatherhood and Life

29:51 Hopes for the Future and Final Thoughts

32:33 Closing Remarks and Credits

Connect with me!
Instagram: @dorifern
LinkedIn: Dori Fern
Email me: lifechangingwithdorifern@gmail.com

Visit https://dorifern.com for more about Dori's coaching services and to sign up for a complimentary call.

Transcript

 The fun thing about working on this first handful of season two episodes has been looking back months later to discover themes that I had not seen at first during these conversations.  There's one more episode to come that was recorded before I had a grasp on what I was trying to communicate, before my producer Anne signed on to help me put shape to what started as a kind of vague concept to talk to people in my life who have made deep and sometimes surprising connections with.

To explore what makes them them, who they are to me, and what our relationship says about us.  So last week I attended the latest Art of Storytelling, which is a series at the Soho House in New York City, co hosted by today's guest, Ken Gibbs Jr.  Ken has built the digital foundation for brands like Urban One, Essence, and held leadership roles at Ebony Media and Money 2020.

He was Spotify's first global head of social media marketing and held similar roles at Amazon Prime Video and at Google. BET Networks.  And Ken was a very ambitious, which will not surprise you when you hear this conversation, 30 year old working at AOL Black Voices when I was hired at 40 to produce AOL's mom targeted chief everything officer contest content.

And that was 2006. Like me, Ken is currently consulting and plotting what's next work wise.  So we talk more about Art of Storytelling later in the episode, but as I sat there at the event, listening to Ken and his co host, Emmanuel Nunn, interview their September guest, Seth Fried Richardson, who I did not know, but who's a very cool guy. 

It dawned on me that the central connection between me and Ken,  we are both total nerds.  I don't know about you guys, but I have a handful of friends who when we talk, which may only happen a few times a year, probably because we exhaust each other in between, we can geek out for hours about countless topics.

With Ken and I, it's tech and hip hop,  Podcasting, Race, Identity Politics, Family, work, life, well, really, whatever is on our very active minds at any given moment.  We bounce around a lot, but we definitely have a flow.  Listen up. 

Welcome to Life Changing with Dori Fern, a podcast about who we are, where we're going, and what connects us. It's a show for people in progress. 

The work, there's only but so much work and it's not really rocket science if you're not a rocket scientist. 

Welcome to the podcast, Ken Gibbs Jr. 

Thanks so much for having me. I'm glad to be here.  

I was thinking of this story this morning because I knew we were 10 years apart, but then that sparked a memory that you were two months away from being born. When I went on this family vacation at Disney World, July 4th, 1976, Bicentennial Day Parade,  I'm getting to a question about you after this, but  that experience was one like, it's etched in my mind.

I was, there were two things. One was I had never seen Fireworks before. And I mean, maybe I had seen them, but I had never seen them like close up, like the sky opened up. You know, I grew up in New York city, the sky was opened up. So I kept ducking every time the fireworks came out. I was 10 years old.  And then we went on space mountain, which had just opened.

And I remember everybody's different reaction to being on Space Mountain, like my mother screamed, my brother cried, he was seven,  I laughed hysterically like a hyena,  and my dad  did nothing, like he said nothing, he was quiet. Now my dad, when he was talking, he was yelling. So this is all just etched in my mind.

So I don't know what any of this really means, but I'm wondering, what is one of your earliest family memories that comes back to you. 

Ooh, ooh, this is a tricky one.  Um, so ironically it came up when you were speaking, uh, cause it also somewhat involved fireworks. It was a trip that we took as a family, uh, we were five by then because I was about ten and my youngest brother, who I'm ten years older than, had been born.

Um, and we drove to Washington, D. C. to watch the fireworks for Fourth of July.  Now, as you can imagine, it was 1986. 1986, right? Uh, in the height of the crack epidemic in Washington, D. C. Uh, Chocolate City is on fire.  But my parents didn't see those type of things. They were from the very segregated South where they had like Knight Riders in North Carolina, Ku Klux Klan, all that stuff.

So they were not afraid of other black people. They're like, we're going to go to D. C. and watch these fireworks.  So we're driving around trying to find the place. And it was the first time that I remember being pulled over by the police. I was just terrified, just terrified. You know, flashing lights, all this stuff.

We got pulled over because we're driving too slow. You know, my father tried to find where to go.  So I remember being in the back seat while that was happening. It was just hectic and chaotic. To me, as a child, didn't necessarily, um, ignite or inspire a sense of security. 

The lack of security. How did your parents fit into that? 

It was just calamity and they seemed confused. It was their first time there. I'm pretty sure this was all something that my parents were doing together to really help my father kind of like deal with all these feelings that he was having. My father is a decorated Vietnam veteran.  So how you said that your father was on the rattle, I didn't say anything.

My father is like super soldier stoic. And you never really saw much of an emotional reaction from him. But around this time, I saw two, we went to the mall. Veterans used to go to the wall, they would take pencils and stencil in the names of their friends who had fallen and were on the memorials. So, you know, doing that with my father, he's like crying and stuff.

I'd never really seen that.  But, um, Oliver Stone did a tour for Platoon where he, uh, was screening it for all these veteran groups, right? It's funny, like, in hindsight, I'm sure that's why he made the trip. My father, never. spoke about Vietnam at all. Um, even when we had questions like, Oh, hey, you were in this war.

And even though we're 10 years old,  my father took us to the screen.  

So what did you take from his showing you Platoon at 10 years old?  

I was like, Oh shit,  I get it now. It was his way of 

speaking to you without having to say the words himself. 

Well, yeah, the entire thing.  And in Boston, you know, racism is up front  everywhere.

You 

grew up in Boston. Yeah, 

I'm born and raised from Boston. Um, there was no real socialization with white people in my youth. So coming out of the platoon screening to see my father like crying and hugging with white men, I'm like, what's going on here? You know,  but having seen the movie, I was like, I was like, Oh man, man, they went through it together. 

So that was a long way to say.  86, pretty much. Kind of like my, my biggest, most vibrant family member.  

We've been friends for 18 years now, if you can believe it. We became friends at AOL. That makes you my oldest, continuously operating male friend. 

Whoa.  I can't even believe the 18 years. Shit. 

It's 18 years, but also I, I think for someone who grew up with all brothers, I've always known you to have a lot of women friends, like close women friendships, is 

that right? 

Yes. What do you attribute 

that to? 

All right. Hey, this is a podcast  and, uh, let's go all the way in.  I've always loved rap music since the first time I ever heard it. It is how I explored other black communities before the internet. It was almost like I would pick up books and understand the similarities.

And the challenges that black males dealt with through the course of time, you know? And, uh, Icy had this song. It was like, some of these niggas are bitches too.  Quite profane. I get it. But the underlying sentiment was speaking to like male chauvinists in that, Oh, certain men feel as though they've got.

Authority or the right to be in certain positions, but they're not really holding it down. And then it would reference like a woman who was super thorough.  I noticed that in my own upbringing. I was, you know, uh, the geek, the glasses, the, the fat kid, never had the impressive clothes ever. 

This is not a video podcast, but Ken is always sharply dressed now. 

Always. Well, back then,  let me tell you.  I would notice how I would be the scapegoat for jokes, all these things, yada, yada, yada. Um, the only thing I really could do was, you know, wrestle and fight. Why? I live in a house full of guys, you know, like wrestling and fighting are simply like language in those environments. 

And so, you know, a lot of the bravado and stuff that I would just eventually realize was bullshit amongst men.  I realized I was having what I perceived to be just much more honest and forefright conversations with women  because there was no, there was no judgment. And as a result, I ended up having a lot of female friendships. 

My favorite thing that has kept us connected so much over the years is the art of storytelling, your storytelling series that you have done with Emmanuel Nunn in partnership with the Soho House. Over five years, and I've seen these amazing conversations with just a brilliant assortment of people from all different backgrounds of entertainment, music, sports.

Um, shout out some of your past guests. 

Uh, I mean, first I gotta shout out E. Yes. Emmanuel Nunn. He's the one who brought me into it. So how it really started was when E did it first, he was doing up with D Nice.  He was doing with 

D nice? 

Well, not, not, not as a co host, but D was his first guest. Oh, 

okay. 

Right?

D was his first guest. I think I remember that. So we've had some great and memorable conversations. Everyone from, uh, Premium 

Peak. That was a big one. 

Jesus Christ. Premium Pete from the spaceship who was like such an inspiration who's been able to really just run with all the opportunities that being on the Combat Jack show allowed him to take advantage of and amplify.

Uh, we had McCann, New York CEO, Amber Gild. Amber 

Gild. Yes. She's, she was amazing. 

She was. Incredible. Um, we've had the artist, Lisa Butler. Yes. Oh my gosh. That was 

incredible. 

Amazing. You know, it's ironic there. Uh, those two female guests probably had the biggest audiences. Yeah. That was packed. Wall to wall,  like outrageous.

But also Chef Alexander Smalls. Oh my gosh, that 

was, that was great too. That's the, probably the only one I came with a crew. He really brings them out.  He brings them out. Everybody loves, everyone loves it.  So, this seems like a good time to ask you about the podcast you're working on.  

Yes, yes.  Um, so, a friend of mine, Ji Sung Choi, and I are working on a podcast that has no launch date yet. 

Right. Um, what we have pledged to do is not work on it as long as some other friends. So I've got some other friends who at this point, I think it's just their excuse to get out the house.  They've been working on a podcast for at least a year now  and have not released anything. 

I wonder what's holding them back.

I mean, I guess when I started my podcast, I did some recordings before I launched and I was like, this isn't right. I knew that it wasn't what I wanted to do. And a lot of people were telling me, just do it, just go live and then you can, then you can  change it, you can shape it. But there's something to listening to your gut, just taking long walks, doing the thing in the room that nobody's going to hear to let it shape itself before it goes out into the world.

Because  people say, you can always change something. And of course you can, but once you put it out and put this is my view on things, like once you put it out in public, you are committing to this being, it doesn't have to be the forever thing. For example, this season of my podcast is different than the last season, but I'm telling this story.

You can get better at telling that story, but once you start telling a story with your podcast to go and be like,  no, I want to tell you a completely different. story now. It's just, it's harder. And I, I think it's just, I don't know. 

Like when people say that you can always change it, what they don't realize is that you can never change the impression that you've made with what you've released. 

Oh, that's an interesting way to look at it. Yeah. 

Right. This is something that I would always have to coach talent through.  

Are you a competitive person?

Yes.  Yes. Um,  yeah. 

How do you see yourself in terms of, um,  competition?  

Hmm. I, I mean,  I would say at the very extreme.  My heart isn't beating if I'm not competing.  You know, I, I'm such an on off person like that. Like, I'm just a chill person. I like to relax, have a good time. Ha ha. Um, but  when there is something to accomplish, something that must be completed,  that's where the competition kicks in.

I want to get it done. I want to make sure that it's done the best.  I think I'm reasonable in that desire. You know, I don't like to leave the bodies on the field, but also I like to be realistic about what I'm seeing in terms of effort being exerted.  

When  competition is about winners, There are losers.

And how do you think about the losers?  

I don't. I've often thought of the concept of winners and losers in the same way I think of good and evil. Like,  does evil exist without good? Or is it something that the good people made up to talk about the other people? What does it mean to really win?  Does it mean that you got the trophy? 

Doesn't mean that you overcame something personally that nobody can see, but you know is there.  I'll give you an example. So my son just completed his first real season of wrestling.  Throughout the season, there were a lot of tears. And I was just telling him like, Hey, uh, you're half naked in front of an auditorium full of people grappling.

With another man.  You've already won. What this is doing for you mentally, forget physically, because this is really more about mental stamina, toughness, and grit. And if you didn't have that,  but you gained it after this season, despite having a losing record, you won.  Right? So I think from that competitor standpoint, you've got to find what your win is and know why you're doing this.

So what I hear in what you're saying is showing up to take the risk is winning.  

Yes. Stepping up to bat.  You know, you can't hear, you can't win if you don't play.  And playing to win is really just putting all your effort.  

Yeah, I did not do sports as a kid. And I  had two children who did, and my son in particular, he still plays.

And I see all the time, the way it creates this framework for risk taking. 

I don't think this podcast would exist had I never met Regi Osei, AKA Combat Jack.  I met him and his wife, Akim,  at a Park Slope Elementary School playground when our kids were very young, sometime in the early aughts.  Our kids are friends now, and his middle son, Chi Osei, is New York City's youngest city council member. 

But at that time, the bond was ours. The grown ups formed mostly, I'd say, because we were among the rare Park Slope area parents who grew up in New York City. Reggie and I often sat together at a local cafe after dropping our kids off at school, and Reggie would tell me about life after leaving his music industry law career and its cushy salary to build a more creative life and career. 

He was, at the time, dishing about the music industry for free, incognito, undercover, on a blog called Daily Mathematics, where he first adopted the Combat Jack name.  His podcast, The Combat Jack Show, started in 2010, modeled after Howard Stern's radio show, and like Howard, Reggie had his own lively cast of characters. 

I remember riding the subway into Midtown one time with Reggie and it must have been around 2014. Yeah.  And telling him my idea for a podcast, it involved talking to people about how and what they eat.  An idea that I still think is a good one. and I may still do. But anyway, Reggie, who loved my cooking, and especially my potato latkes, and for many years was a favorite guest at my annual holiday party, encouraged me to go for it, the podcast, and whatever else I imagined for myself. 

He really was the biggest cheerleader, that guy.  Look Reg, I did it! Finally! 

Reggie Osei died of colon cancer on December 20th, 2017. And in a sad twist, two days after this episode was recorded and really minutes after I had arrived at Ken and his wife Diana's New Jersey home for lunch,  we got the news that Dallas Penn, one of Reggie's longtime co hosts, had also died.  Both men were just 53 years old when they passed.

So I want to go back to the earlier days of our friendship.  We have a mutual friend in common, the late, great Reggie 

Osei. Indeed. 

Also known to many, if not most, as Combat Jack, the godfather of hip hop podcasting. Am I correct in remembering that though you kind of knew each other from the internet before, that you actually met each other at my home for the Hanukkah latke.

Party that I had? 

No. No. Okay. No, that was, I think we both brought our kids together for the first time. That was the first time. It was like a non-industry hang,  I'd say. Right. But the first time I met Reggie, he mentioned podcast. I was like, man, I had my first podcast and like early two thousands when I was at a OL, like, when was it called?

A podcast then.  

Yeah. Yeah. Because you can only play them on the iPod, right? Like that's why you go on the podcast. Right. So I was like, Oh man, podcast. Wow. I'd love to come check it out. So around this time, I had also had my first child. Life story for me was, you know, you wait all this time until you feel you're in position to be able to have and support a family.

And as soon as you make plans, God's laughs. I proposed to my wife,  got laid off and found out I was going to be a father, like all within a 10 day span. Right.  So I was just figuring out what I was going to do with myself, yada, yada. And granted. I had come here for work, so I didn't really have much of a support structure or any of that.

Here being New York. Yes. And, um, Reggie had already gone through it. He had kids, um, had, had, you know, the law firm and all that. So I really looked towards him for mentorship. And he was looking for my skills. So I was just like, Hey, um, let me know where and when you guys are reporting and I'll stop by.

That's really how the relationship blossomed. I didn't have anywhere to go when I was out of work. I was really staying home, support my wife, making sure that, you know, she had what she needed, the family. 

She was working at the time. Yeah, 

she was working. 

It was similar for Reggie in that. He was, you know, supported.

Yeah, he was home. Yeah, he was a stay at home dad. What did you learn from Reggie?  

Uh, 

what stays with you about Reggie? '

cause uh, how to take care of yourself,  

how to take care of yourself. Say more 

like, what dawned on me was that, you know, Reggie had had success that was evident, not only in the perspective that he was able to share through the things that he wrote, um, the positions that he held, money he was able to make. 

He showed 

up for the game. 

Yeah, completely, completely. But he had gotten to a point where he was burnt out. To have such success and feel that you're so burnt out at such an early age, what I saw within him was 

This was his legal career that he was burnt out from. Yes. Yeah. Mm hmm. 

Yes. Um, was that he started to think about what made him happy.

And that was something that resonated strongly with me because, like, that was never an option for me. Mm hmm. You know, 

what do you mean? It was never an option for 

you before you can thrive. You must survive. And when you're trying to survive, there aren't many options other than forward, forward to the point where you you've built enough of a lead  to at least be able to take a breath  in life.

And, um, and I think also when you do get to that point, if the rewards aren't what you imagined them to be, or you aren't enjoying life as you thought you would,  You know, it'll make you question things, right? Like, how are you going to live out the rest of it? Now that you've got this unique perspective and wisdom, what is it that you feel you should impart on your children? 

Because the work, there's only but so much work and  it's not really rocket science if you're not a rocket scientist, right? And so that level of introspection, I think, is what really Attracted me to Reggie, the movement, the spaceship, the crew. Um, the authenticity that he brought to the table is what made it possible for him to assemble the crew that you saw in the Combat Jack show.

I know when things are gonna work, what it takes to work. It was very clear. 

He was just like the most inspiring person I knew who just jumped to do things. He took the unconventional path because he knew he was doing something groundbreaking and special. Mm hmm. And to what you were saying before about being in the position to do that, To some extent, it's what we think we're in the position to do or believe we have to do.

But he's always with me when I feel stuck or like retreating into  the ordinary and the conventional and the known paths. He's always there telling me to just keep going. 

What do you think has changed most for you? What was like a big aha moment for you in your life? A change that occurred that you're like, I am now a different person knowing this. I operate differently. 

Oh, I mean being a father. Yeah. Yeah. Hands down. You have two kids, two kids, uh, oldest 14 boy, youngest 10 year old girl. 

I'm, I'm not someone who was like, Oh yeah, I can't wait to have kids. Oh, family and all this stuff actually never crossed my mind.  That's not the life I was living. And, uh,  and  when I did.  It was  like, yeah, it was weird.  It was weird. What did you feel that was different? 

How did that show up for you? 

Responsibility. You know, I mean, I had been a solo soldier  for most of my life, right? Um, despite being the oldest of three brothers, my brothers didn't go where I've gone.  

You're this suburban dad. You're living in suburban New Jersey.  How does it feel to be that 

person? I understand why you have the problems that you do in the suburbs because this is boring as shit. 

There's no other way to say it. Like, I, cause I've been having to give this a lot of thought lately because I'm like firmly rooted in the burbs now and I'm like, Oh my God, this is hell.  Cause it's, it's cookie cutter.  Yeah, it's just cookie cutter. And I never imagined or desired any aspect of my life to be cookie cutter, but I am all in on things.

So, you know, I got family and bros. That's what I'm doing.  I'm out here making lunches in the morning, you know, I'm tapping my wife like, you need a lunch too? What you, what you want? What you got? Right? Like, like, like everybody going to be good going out of here. 

What do you want to change moving forward?

What's on your mind about yourself or your life?  I mean, 

I'm in uncharted territory.  And I think one of the reasons why I just took these last few months off is I've had great success,  but  I'm kind of reaching the end of the road and many different aspects. There are only about so many big jobs you can get.

And when you get the big job, it'll just be the big job, right? We, we know what work is and what you need to do. Being a father, it's an everlasting journey,  you know,  at 10 and 14.  My kids are getting to that age in which, you know, I'm more chauffeur, right? I'm picking them up, taking them places, watching them develop, listening to their stories, and that's great. 

Like I said in the beginning, having been out of work when my son was born, I was more intensely dedicated to fatherhood than most of the guys I know. Kind of going all in on it in that regard.  What I've had to deal with is understanding and understanding. that how you communicate your concern  needs to take into account the recipient.

I'm incredibly hard on myself, incredibly hard on myself, sometimes in unrealistic ways. I mean, I really thank my wife for helping me see and understand that. And when you've got young kids, you've got to be, I think,  delicate  in how you push hard.  Right. And to give you some context there, like if I was like, Come home crying from a fight or something.

I might like slink in the house looking to avoid my father.  My mother would see me and be like, boy, let's get back out there. 

And  then that's me. I'm built for that. Um, my kids are not, they're different. 

Well, yeah, and I mean, you know, you only know from parenting how you were parented and however much you think you're gonna be like different from your parents and actively want to be Different you make choices along the way that are based on what you know to be the way to be a parent.

And then for me, part of age, and actually like, sadly, a little bit too late in some regards, I realized, Oh, I could make a different choice. Like there are other ways.  That is it.  What makes you hopeful?  

My kids, because my kids ask me things at times, like Why does race matter? We may be having conversations at home about something we might see on TV or headline or something like that. 

And they're growing up in a world in which cross cultural communication is happening at a much earlier age. And Hey, we're still black people, minorities within the United States, but they don't have.  The distance of segregation that I had when I was growing up, and I don't think people really recognize it, but you know, if you go into an office building, generally the people who are not non white are guarding the doors or cooking the food, right?

And there will be a smattering of non white people here and there. So for all of those non white people who are the smatter, they've now got to. assimilate and fit into a culture, not an office culture, but a white social culture.  Coming from a segregated background like mine, you have no insight into other than TV and life is not really like TV.

And so that leads to intimidation, stress, just all these things. And my kids don't have that. Quite honest. I feel like less and less black kids have that because I see them talking to other communities online, right. And engaging in cultural exchange. And it gives me hope that that will just recognize the humanity in us all. 

The beauty and richness in all of these cultures and not just this manifest destiny position of there can only be one. That gives me hope. 

We're getting to the end, but I want to ask you,  so I'm very fascinated by this thought that the last thing that remains of us when we're gone are stories.  What will people say about you?

What will you want them to say?  

Uh, he was hard,  but fair, and he cared.  That's it. I'm not going to deny  my tough exterior. It is who I am. It's forged over the years. I get it. Um, the world is not soft to me, and I'm not 

soft 

in response. Um, but I am fair, and  I do care in my own way. Mm 

hmm.  I have experienced that being your friend.

So,  Ken, I adore you. Thank you so much for being here. It was a true honor and a pleasure.  

This has been great. Yes. I appreciate you having me.  

Thank you. Thank you for listening. Um, I have a favor to ask you.  I work really hard on this podcast and I hope you like it and  it would mean so much if you would just share this episode with even one person you know who might like it,  just one person, just go ahead, share the episode, share one of the other episodes if you think they would like that more.

it really makes a big difference. Yes, rate and review do all that stuff, but really sharing the content with somebody,  it means a lot. And, um, you know,  I would really appreciate it. 

Life Changing with Dori Fern is produced and edited by Anne Pope. Music is cool, jazzy bass and vibraphone and orange blues by M3.  Thank you for listening and I'll be back in a couple of weeks with another life changing conversation.